Araknis WAPs? Is mesh best? If so, why do manufacturers continue to make non-mesh WAPs?

ControlFREQ
ControlFREQ Member Posts: 1
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edited August 28, 2019 in Devices & Security #1
We’ve been deploying Araknis network products for residential applications. We’ve gone exclusively to the
700 series WAPs, We use the WiFi channel scan and try to separate the channels as much as possible. Still getting complaints from some customers about poor and spotty reception. I notice that sometimes you have to turn WiFi off and back on again on a device to get it to restore a connection to a internet page or to our control App. Suggestions? Reasons why? 
I’ve looked into eero, but was warned against using it by the Savant rep. Is mesh best? If yes, then why do manufacturers continue to make non-mesh WAPs? 
VioletChepil

Comments

  • Pooh
    Pooh Member, Beta Tester Posts: 674
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    I have three Eero's and it's handling our needs well. That said, I use it for a two person house. This is not your situation.

    The Araknis 700's are designed to be permanently housed, and more for professional usage rather than the Home market the Eero's aimed at, so they would make more sense. Do you have the 700's currently positioned, with the ports facing downwards? Have you checked to make sure each one is currently plugged into the PoE? Also, have you used a WiFi scanner to check for dead spots?

    I'd say Mesh is best for home usage.
    People say nothing is impossible, but I do nothing every day.
    VioletChepil
  • VioletChepil
    VioletChepil London, UKMember Posts: 2,471
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    @ControlFREQ I'm going to modify this title slightly to try and get some more responses for you. Also we could start up a poll too and promote that further? Could start one like what AP do you recommend for best home network set-up and then list the possibilities so user's can vote and comment as well.
    @domenico anything to add on Araknis? 

    Community Manager at Fing

  • VioletChepil
    VioletChepil London, UKMember Posts: 2,471
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    Ahh yes @TheCustomCave maybe you can add on this? 

    Community Manager at Fing

  • Grouty
    Grouty Member Posts: 7
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    Hi Guys, my first post here so be gentle.  :)

    I'm not someone who's knows about, or really understands, networking so this may or may not be useful. In a bid to improve the wifi range in my house I have bought and installed an Orbi system by Netgear. It was easy to set up and had been a big improvement over the wifi modem/router I was using (Fritz!box 7490). Its major weakness was the documentation. Nowhere did it mention the web interface - which gives access to a great deal of flexibility - just the app. The app is very handy though so kudos for that. 

    My 2c worth. Cheers, Grouty
    VioletChepilGidsterHronos
  • TheCustomCave
    TheCustomCave Member, Beta Tester Posts: 48
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    The main thing to remember with these technologies is that they each have a use case.

    I've used this analogy before; imagine you're trying to tell your friend a story, but this friend happens to be on the other side of a field and can't hear you shouting. You need some method of getting the message over to them.

    Lets say you're using two access points, one is your router, the other is in another part of your house and hard wired into your router. In this instance it's like having a second friend stood next to your first friend. You can call either one of them, they can put you on speaker phone and you can tell the story - either way your first friend gets to hear it directly from you.

    If you're using a range extender/repeater - this is like having a second friend stood in between you two. You can shout to your friend in the middle, then will turn around and shout your message onto your first friend. Now depending on the distance you may end up having to add more friends into the field, while it sitll may work, there's more chance for the message to be changed by the time your friend firiend gets it. This adds a delay and the possibility of losing some of the message; thankfully your first friend will shout back what they've heard so you can confim they've got the right message...but that all adds a delay.

    Mesh networking is more like all of your friends having a conference call, then you can walk around and just speak your message to anyone who's listening. Your first friend will still be able to hear it because you're walking in range of someone on the call. The downside here is that sometimes you'll be close enough to one for it to be crystal clear, other times you'll be between two friends so there's a bit of an echo as you're being picked up by more than one phone.

    This is sort of what happens with mesh networking and is why it often disconnects like you've described. The phone has to make a choice between which signal it connects to, while the system itself is also trying to negotiate and grab your traffic. When we set these systems up in a professional setting we tend to map out overlapping signals where you're not likely to be moving. Effectively choosing where the dead zones will be.

    Mesh networking is still hugely under development and is constantly improving, but each approach has its downside. The setup you're using is robust, like the first approach, but you're still contending with a device that's trying to cling onto its currently assigned AP. You'll find that you need to give the device a little jog, either by going out of range entirely or forcing a reconnect (turning off the wifi or disconnecting from the AP) for it to pick the best signal.
    VioletChepilJacco
  • VioletChepil
    VioletChepil London, UKMember Posts: 2,471
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    @Grouty definitely welcoming place here on Fing Community and all answers/contributions are appreciated for any discussion! Welcome anyways and thanks for helping on this post. 

    Community Manager at Fing

    ControlFREQHronos
  • kltaylor
    kltaylor Member, Beta Tester Posts: 1,231
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    I haven't heard of much less deployed any of this brand before.  I wonder if it's an OEM of another brand, like TP-Link or something like that.
    In a business environment, I would be more prone to install Wired Access Points instead of wireless.  It makes better sense and it's abundantly easier to manage locally or remotely.
    With that being said, I know that some businesses have instituted MESH networking equipment and have had great success with them.  
    If you're constantly losing signal strength, I'd start documenting where and when that happens.  After you reset the AP, the signal should be stronger, but when do you start dropping data packets and reliable connectivity?
    What is the building made of?  What's above the ceiling tiles?  How many break rooms and microwaves, wireless phones, etc.?
    "There's a fine line between audacity and idiocy."
    -Warden Anastasia Luccio, Captain
    TheCustomCaveVioletChepilControlFREQ
  • Romulus
    Romulus Member, Beta Tester Posts: 35
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    The thing is not all mesh systems are born equal. A lot are totally dumbed down for the non-network savvy home user. An example of one of these I just recently encountered is "Meshify". This has so little available configuration it amazed me.

    This is why most mesh systems are not at all suitable for Business use as you will inevitably bump up against something you can't do. So for Business a higher end mesh or extenders is the way to go.

    I use an Asus mesh setup that uses their standard routers (certain models) and configures them in a mesh setup. So they retain a lot of the higher end configuration options. So it sits somewhere in the middle.
    TheCustomCaveVioletChepil
  • atomicboy
    atomicboy Member, Beta Tester Posts: 67
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    I use a PepLink Balance 210 Router and 6 PepLink AP One Mini AP’s that are all connected via Ethernet. The Balance 210 Router has an on-board AP management system but I can also use their subscription Cloud Service to manage all my PepLink devices. This system is designed for an office of 150 users however I use it in my home and it is very solid. Previously I had an ASUS System with ASUS AP’s and it often would not hand off my mobile devices. Managing my 4 ASUS AP’s was also a lot of work. My PepLink System is huge overkill and a bit more complicated than the average consumer grade system and of course it requires Ethernet to the AP’s but it is transparent in use.
    I also run an outdoor AP as well that is connected via Ethernet. 
    For a Mesh System, I am impressed with the AmpliFi HD Mesh System which I helped a neighbour install. 
    ControlFREQVioletChepil
  • MaggieL
    MaggieL Member Posts: 51
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    Romulus said:
    The thing is not all mesh systems are born equal....So for Business a higher end mesh or extenders is the way to go.

    Mesh is genuinely non-trivial, and can become counterproductive easily. The company I work for makes mesh network equipment for industrial and military use...and our meshing technology is proprietary and works well with minimum configuration.
    Developer of management software for proprietary industrial mesh networking equipment
    VioletChepil
  • parfimik
    parfimik Member, Beta Tester Posts: 5
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    I am using a Synology 2600 router with 2200 mesh unit. It seems to be much more robust than my previous Netgear router plus ethernet over power wifi extender, with much better "choosing the strongest signal" from my various devices and very few dropouts. The Synology router software is a joy to use (much more like a mini operating system) that allows the addition of downloadable packages. Among others there are security, firewall and parental control packages, and I believe that that approach, together with the scope of the packages, allows it to be tailored to your user environment and also the skill level of the user. The mesh units uses a separate 5Ghz back channel  so minimising interference with the main channel.
    No connection with Synology, just a happy router and NAS user. :-)
    VioletChepilJacco
  • VioletChepil
    VioletChepil London, UKMember Posts: 2,471
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    Thanks for the feedback @parfimik

    Community Manager at Fing

  • RWizzle
    RWizzle Member Posts: 1
    Photogenic
    parfimik said:
    I am using a Synology 2600 router with 2200 mesh unit. It seems to be much more robust than my previous Netgear router plus ethernet over power wifi extender, with much better "choosing the strongest signal" from my various devices and very few dropouts. The Synology router software is a joy to use (much more like a mini operating system) that allows the addition of downloadable packages. Among others there are security, firewall and parental control packages, and I believe that that approach, together with the scope of the packages, allows it to be tailored to your user environment and also the skill level of the user. The mesh units uses a separate 5Ghz back channel  so minimising interference with the main channel.
    No connection with Synology, just a happy router and NAS user. :-)
    Hello.  By chance are  you using a fingbox in this setup?  I am trying to get clarity on what does work and what doesn't work with Fingbox and synology routers.  The FAQ guide mentiones what may not work, but does not clarify beyond that.  Many thanks for any info you can provide.
  • RWizzle
    RWizzle Member Posts: 1
    Photogenic
    parfimik said:
    I am using a Synology 2600 router with 2200 mesh unit. It seems to be much more robust than my previous Netgear router plus ethernet over power wifi extender, with much better "choosing the strongest signal" from my various devices and very few dropouts. The Synology router software is a joy to use (much more like a mini operating system) that allows the addition of downloadable packages. Among others there are security, firewall and parental control packages, and I believe that that approach, together with the scope of the packages, allows it to be tailored to your user environment and also the skill level of the user. The mesh units uses a separate 5Ghz back channel  so minimising interference with the main channel.
    No connection with Synology, just a happy router and NAS user. :-)
    Hello.  By chance are  you using a fingbox in this setup?  I am trying to get clarity on what does work and what doesn't work with Fingbox and synology routers.  The FAQ guide mentiones what may not work, but does not clarify beyond that.  Many thanks for any info you can provide.
  • Micha3elC
    Micha3elC Member Posts: 1
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    new here and reupping this thread. Currently fighting w my home install in a multi level 6000 sq ft home. ISP is xfinity. Pull 1.2g straight to my araknis router / switch. Wire drops are hard in this home. Have been able to get drops from basement where the router / rack is to the first floor. Can pull full wired speeds. Have a luxul WAP pulling 600mbps which degrades very quickly. Signal mapping shows it drop from 600 to less than 40 on the first floor. Second floor is about the same. Given the difficult in wire drops, I have added MOCA adaptors to reuse coax which seems to be run all over this house. These pull 100% of wired network speed. I am stuck with how best to fill the gaps. I have an araknis 700 indoor wap, another 700 outdoor wap I wanted for the patio, and an 810 that I was planning to put in the center of the home on the first floor as it purports to be the most powerfully. The 810 can connect to an existing Ethernet drop which has been verified to pull 100% of the speed.


    so, what’s the problem you day after reading this build up? The question is do I add a wired mesh solution to the second floor where I’m currently pulling 100% wired right now, or do install the waps upstairs? I also have the added issue of not being a professional installer so working w the araknis equipment requires working w my old installer (which brings its own challenges).

    I was thinking of something like an eero pro 6 or an orbi mesh option but could leverage the Ethernet for wired back haul. But again, I’m googling my way to greatness on this...

    Thanks!!

    best

    Michael

  • Marc
    Marc Moderator, Beta Tester Posts: 2,802
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    Mesh will buy you seamless roaming which is one of its better selling points.  If you can hard wire the nodes, you will get much better throughput than if you don't.  I did this after I had the nodes backhaul connections running wireless and it was night and day better.  Your mileage can or may vary depending on your particular home construction set up.
    Thats Daphnee, she's a good dog...