Android 10 & Fing App - Will Fing App work on Android 10?

VioletChepil

Android 10 has started to roll-out, and Fing is ready for it. Find out more about when Android 10 will be coming to your phone model. 

Among the changes, devices running on Android 10 by default send randomised MAC addresses on each WiFi they connect and block access to the table of MAC addresses, and this limits Fing App’s ability to display complete device details in some instances.

Android 10 impact on Fing Network Scanner

Our inability to access the ARP table on Android 10, has the following impact on the free Fing network scanning app when running on Android 10 devices:

• MAC addresses of devices can no longer be discovered through the ARP Table.

• Device manufacturers can no longer be recognized as these come from the MAC addresses, although we will still attempt identification on a best effort basis using other network information that it is still available.

• The identification will be based on IP Addresses.  Custom names and icons can still be assigned to devices, but you need to make sure your DHCP assigns the same IP address to the same device.

• The Wake on LAN feature from the device details will be disabled, but you can create a Wake on LAN local or remote profile and enter the MAC address yourself

• The quality of the Device Recognition may be decreased, though we can still identify devices from other means, including all available discovery protocols.

We would encourage you to manually insert as many details as you can about your devices from the device details page. This will help you identify your own devices when you come back to the app. 

Get Fingbox to see MAC addresses on Android 10

If you get a Fingbox for your network you will still be able to see MAC addresses of the devices on the network via your app on Android 10.  

PC/MAC Fing App versions are coming

As per our latest company roadmap, we plan to release PC/MAC versions of the Fing App which will still allow you to see MAC addresses when scanning a network. 

Let us know your thoughts and questions in the comments below.

Systops5

I have no problem with this running on Android 10. I don't know if this just has not been updated recently however, it appears to work just fine, with the exception of Bonded Network Interfaces.  I do not know if this was an issue prior to Android 10 or not.

As for a PC version of the App. While that would be great, even better would be a Web Config interface which would work Cross Platform, and could possibly include an API section to configure the output as would work best per our application, though this may cross into the Business Platform. IDK....

VioletChepil

Really that is very strange @Systops5 is this with Fingbox? Fingbox would be fine. Are you able to get MAC addresses when scanning other networks - other than those with a Fingbox on it?

Systops5

I am only using the Fingbox and App for a single network. That said, I don't have any problems with the App getting the MAC Addresses for all the devices on my network. Perhaps I missed understood the original post, but I didn't see where it was mentioning multiple networks.  My understanding has always been that Fingbox was only able to scan devices on the same network, so I was not looking for devices on any other networks, or how Fingbox would know of any other networks especially since the Fingbox doesn't have configuration for multiple Gateways which would be the only way that it would even know about another network. And when we say "Another Network" I am assuming we are referring to a different subnet.

VioletChepil

Hi @Systops5 another network could be any network. For example at the airport, a cafe, your office. Each subnet requires another Fingbox to get all devices and MAC addresses for example. So, if you have a Fingbox - you'll get all the best device information since this is done by MAC address. If you have a Fingbox, and scan your work network without a Fingbox - you would not be able to get the MAC address and you'll get the best information that we have available. Let me know if that clears things up a bit. 

Systops5

Well, no because I knew that already, I am trying to understand what the problem is with Android 10. Because I have it and I don't have an issue with getting the MAC adders on my network. Thats where I am confused. So what am I missing?

VioletChepil

Have you scanned another network without your Fingbox @Systops5? Fingbox users wouldn't be impacted like the rest of Fing App users. 

Systops5

Right now, I do not have another network to scan. We have one network here, though the Fing Box does show as its own network which is a little goofy, considering it is on the same subnet as my router however, since my focus is on the Routers Network, I will not be using the Fing Box as a Network and scanning that. That would only add to an already complex network, and I need to focus on the devices on the Router since that is the network device all devices communicate through on the network

VioletChepil

Thanks @Systops5 so this update will not be impacting you if you are not scanning other networks only with Fing App. 

Systops5

Ok, Since I have Android 10, can someone tell me what to look for on my android to try and see this issue from a droid point of view? Since I don't have any issues with the FingApp, I would like to try and see the issue from a droid perspective since I would be able to test these issues . Tks

VioletChepil

Hi @CreigS I think your comment maybe we shall split into its own thread and have others comment on. I've split that off here: https://community.fing.com/discussion/910/android-10-random-mac-addresses-seen-by-router 

Hronos

Systops5 said:

Ok, Since I have Android 10, can someone tell me what to look for on my android to try and see this issue from a droid point of view? Since I don't have any issues with the FingApp, I would like to try and see the issue from a droid perspective since I would be able to test these issues . Tks

@Systops5 I will try to simplify the symptoms here...
If you do have a FingBox you will see the MAC Addresses from the FingApp (Android 10 or earlier ) because the device getting the MAC Addresses is the box, not the Android device.
If you don't have a FingBox and use an android 9 or earlier, you will see the MAC Addresses, because FingApp can accesses the ARP table of the Android operative system.

If you don't have a FingBox and use an Android 10 device, you will NOT see the MAC Addresses, because of the restrictions already listed in the post.  But, I am pretty sure than if you already know the MAC Address of a device, it is stored in your account, so (I don't have an android 10 device to test it.  @VioletChepil could clarify if needed) if you "upgrade" or "change your device" from an Android 9 or earlier to an Android 10, you will still see the MAC Addresses of the already known devices.  All new devices will NOT show their MAC Addresses.

VioletChepil

Thanks @Hronos and @Systops5 I've checked in on your last statement and its not exactly how it'll work.
If you don’t touch anything, you will see the MAC addresses (from the account storage). But once you start re-scanning on Android 10, the scan will switch to IP-based, and the app cannot tell for sure if the IP is still assigned to the old MAC address, so they get discarded.
I hope this clarifies things for all. 

Systops5

That is not happening on my device. I have a Google Pixel so I have Android 10. I rescan my network frequently and have yet to have this issue occur. This is why I'm not really sure how to quantify this issue. This does not happen on my device.

VioletChepil

@Systops5 could you open this issue you have as a new thread - and we can take the troubleshooting from there?
If you have any supporting screenshots that would be very helpful too. 

Systops5

Ahh, I take that back! I was just able to reproduce it.. I see the issue now. Not sure why this was not happening previously but I am seeing it now. Interesting!

Systops5

However, I found that if I go into my WiFi settings, choose my WiFi Connection. Tap advanced, then Privacy Settings and change use Random Mac Address to Use Devices Mac Address, and I rescan my network all the Mac addresses are now found and matched with its respective IP. Now k can't be sure why thus worked but I would be curious to see if anyone else tries that if it corrects the issue for them as well.

VioletChepil

Ok can we start up a new thread @Systops5 and see any others feedback too? I'm curios too. 

Systops5

Sure.

Hronos

VioletChepil said:

Thanks @Hronos and @Systops5 I've checked in on your last statement and its not exactly how it'll work.
If you don’t touch anything, you will see the MAC addresses (from the account storage). But once you start re-scanning on Android 10, the scan will switch to IP-based, and the app cannot tell for sure if the IP is still assigned to the old MAC address, so they get discarded.
I hope this clarifies things for all. 

I kind of knew something like that has to happen, It is really frustrating the limitations now you have to live with, for one who "want" a more secure network/devices... (I mean, if I am aware of the context, why not let me use the ARP table!! xD,I know, that Android/Google or iOS/Apple prerogative, but still... ufff!!!)

Hronos

Systops5 said:

However, I found that if I go into my WiFi settings, choose my WiFi Connection. Tap advanced, then Privacy Settings and change use Random Mac Address to Use Devices Mac Address, and I rescan my network all the Mac addresses are now found and matched with its respective IP. Now k can't be sure why thus worked but I would be curious to see if anyone else tries that if it corrects the issue for them as well.

Interesting...

Pat_R

I have been in contact with Tech Support and was unable to get a clear answer to a simple question regarding this issue. All they were able to do, is to point me back to this Forum, which clearly has not answered the question regarding this issue so far...

PROBLEM: No longer getting the devices MAC addresses under "Devices" list when scanning a network, after upgrade to Android 10. 

DESCRIPTION: Connect to a network (Anyone), Open FING app; Under the “Devices” tab; click on the “refresh” arrow (Top right), Wait for the Network to be “Scanned”, then you get a list of all the “DEVICES” active on said Network; The Devices are listed by IP; On the left of the screen there is an Icon representing the device type (sometimes, and mostly inaccurate), then it shows the Device Name and the IP address below it; But, On the right side, it NO LONGER shows the Manufacturer and MAC Address.

As a solution suggested by others in here, on my mobile, I have selected "Use Device MAC" in WiFi settings; Network details; Advanced; Privacy.; But still not working.... 

In trying to troubleshoot this issue further, I have tried other "Network Scanning App", and contrary to what is suggested here, MAC addresses are still discovered and shown in other apps like: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.magdalm.wifinetworkscanner

Once again; If other “Network Scanning app” are still (after Android 10 update) showing this Critical information (MAC Addresses) of all devices on the "Scanned" Network; This is then is clearly not an Android limitation... How come they still can do it, and FING can't?

MAC addresses are a must when troubleshooting a network. And I'm not talking about doing it on "your own little network" where you could have a FingBox installed to circumvent this issue, I'm talking about using the FING app at many different locations and for many different client Networks having hundreds of Devices on said Networks.

If you pride yourself as being on top, shouldn't you be the one that has the solutions...

Hopefully, someone with knowledgeable input will be able to shed some light on this weird issue.

VioletChepil

Hello @Pat_R
Violet here and I manage the Fing Community also with the Fing support team. Unfortunately on Android 10+ access to the ARP table is blocked. We have been preparing/testing for months. We had a similar case with iOS 11 last year and it will be rolling out over next months to Android 10+ devices. https://help.fing.io/knowledge-base/cant-fing-see-mac-addresses-ios-11/ 

Actually, we'll be launching Fing Desktop for PC/MAC very soon and this will help with better identification. 

Other apps - MAC addresses: 
- Could it be that you entered custom device details and those are stored by IP address rather than MAC address? It could be that until the device changes IP address that is how the details are being stored. 
- Are you sure to be using Android 10? If so, then access to the ARP table would be blocked by the other apps too. I'm still puzzled how they could display.
- Do you have any supporting screenshots? I'd like to understand this better. 
- Could you try with Android 10 with those other apps on different networks with devices that are not fully unknown?

Really, I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this! 

Pat_R

Violet,
I find it almost offensive that you would doubt the fact I'm running Android 10, and that other apps are able to get the MAC info.
What I would suggest, would be for you to download the app that I have referenced in my previous post and do all the testing your hart's content.
On my side, I have tried and tested the specified app, and on the initial first run it did display all MACs on that Network and every time thereafter on all other Networks I have tried it on...
Actually, I just tried it once again on a different Network and got all MAC displayed right away.
 
Word to the wise, it might be a good idea to try testing referenced products on your end before suggesting others don't know what they're talking about...
Sorry, but there is nothing else more I can add at this point than; others have found a way to get the MACs and obviously you (Fing) did not...
Oh well, I guess it's time for you (Fing) to go back to the good old dev drawing board...
Hope you will find a way to make it work also, like others did, because it would be sad to have to move away from your app.

Carlo_from_Fing

Hey @Pat_R you just got my attention.
Your feedback here is more than precious!

We just tried it and it seems this app made it.
Please note that it happened so many times that people got wrong in reporting this kind of good news, that @VioletChepil could not believe it.

Thanks again for this hint.

VioletChepil

Hey @Pat_R
I am sorry if I came across as not believing you. That was not my intention. I need to just confirm what is happening with supporting evidence and double check information. Usually to start an investigation with our developers (we are a small team) I need as many details as possible and to ensure all the settings on the phone etc. I need to double check to make sure that I collect all the information they would need to investigate.
Anything I can illustrate with screenshots, the better.
They are investigating this case this morning as a matter of priority, so thank you for bringing that to our attention. 
I will revert here when I have any more details. 
Thank you for sharing the screens and confirming.
Violet

Carlo_from_Fing

This is the Fing team thanking you @Pat_R .
The phone screen is almost not visible, but that's Fing on Android 10... with MAC addresses.
You don't have to just take our word for it, because a beta version is coming soon!

kltaylor

Pat_R said:

Violet,
I find it almost offensive that you would doubt the fact I'm running Android 10, and that other apps are able to get the MAC info.
What I would suggest, would be for you to download the app that I have referenced in my previous post and do all the testing your hart's content.
On my side, I have tried and tested the specified app, and on the initial first run it did display all MACs on that Network and every time thereafter on all other Networks I have tried it on...
Actually, I just tried it once again on a different Network and got all MAC displayed right away.
 
Word to the wise, it might be a good idea to try testing referenced products on your end before suggesting others don't know what they're talking about...
Sorry, but there is nothing else more I can add at this point than; others have found a way to get the MACs and obviously you (Fing) did not...
Oh well, I guess it's time for you (Fing) to go back to the good old dev drawing board...
Hope you will find a way to make it work also, like others did, because it would be sad to have to move away from your app.

It's not an issue on whether she believes you or not, she is asking 'discovery questions' related to your issue that you're experiencing.  We understand the frustration and we are here to help, while the answers may seem to be silly or redundant, please provide those answers so that we can narrow down what's happening so we can try to help resolve it for you.

Pat_R

@ Carlo_from_Fing, my pleasure! I'm glad my "Feedback" could be helpful. Please keep me posted on the "Beta Version" as I can't wait to "Test" it. Thank you for the Great Picture! Keep up your excellent work!
@ VioletChepil, No worries, I assume you must feel like you are dealing with "Morrons" most of the times and that is why you did not take the time to properly read and investigate my initial post (No need to acknowledge this one). The important thing is that we will all benefit from this. PS; on a personal note, Congrats, and best wishes!
@ kltaylor, Eeeee, how can I put this, politely... There is always that "person" on Forums that has to try to show off their "Chivalry" by posting irrelevant personal opinions and stealing valuable bits, space and time for everyone reading, and here, this is You. Maybe ask yourself if your Post/Comment was helpful in any way solving this "MAC Address" issue. If the answer is no, then... This is You! (...And now, it's Me...)

VioletChepil

Thank you again @Pat_R for the feedback and help identifying this issue. We do not feel like we are dealing with morons at all. We value all of our Community members, comments, feedback and inputs. When troubleshooting an issue, we will always ask for numerous pieces of information (depending on the issue), screenshots are a standard piece of information that we request. Once all of the troubleshooting information will then be sent to our developers to resolve/implement etc. This information helps to contribute towards a positive outcome (as has happened in this case). As this was new information for us, this was especially relevant in this case. 
We want the Fing Community to be a fun, happy and welcoming place where any member can come to learn or get help. We encourage people to participate and we want to encourage a positive and welcoming environment. Of course, we may have differences of opinion and will not always necessarily agree with each other but we can still be respectful too. Thank you all for your understanding and your continued participation.

Here are our community guidelines in case anyone wants to refer to what we are all about: https://community.fing.com/discussion/19/community-guidelines-read-before-posting

kltaylor

Pat_R said:

@ Carlo_from_Fing, my pleasure! I'm glad my "Feedback" could be helpful. Please keep me posted on the "Beta Version" as I can't wait to "Test" it. Thank you for the Great Picture! Keep up your excellent work!
@ VioletChepil, No worries, I assume you must feel like you are dealing with "Morrons" most of the times and that is why you did not take the time to properly read and investigate my initial post (No need to acknowledge this one). The important thing is that we will all benefit from this. PS; on a personal note, Congrats, and best wishes!
@ kltaylor, Eeeee, how can I put this, politely... There is always that "person" on Forums that has to try to show off their "Chivalry" by posting irrelevant personal opinions and stealing valuable bits, space and time for everyone reading, and here, this is You. Maybe ask yourself if your Post/Comment was helpful in any way solving this "MAC Address" issue. If the answer is no, then... This is You! (...And now, it's Me...)

Yeah, that's me alright.  The one that "doesn't contribute" to the "community" in any way at all.