Lwip on my router?

Bazcoigne · October 20

Hi - I’m not technically savvy at all but I’ve noticed something called Lwip or Iwip on my network. I’ve tried googling and can’t fathom what it is or if it should be on the network.

it has ping

ive tried deleting it and it just re joins

it does change on the table to say it’s changed recently etc

it’s been doing my head in for mths

Is anything to worry about?

I’ve attached a pic below to show connected devices etc

any help would be greatly appreciated ??

cheers

Shooter · October 20

Hi Bazcoigne,

Have you or anyone in your home recently installed any smart devices, such as a wifi plug, or lightbulb, etc.? Something like a smart wifi plug would be easy to overlook as connecting to your network, and if a member of your household installed one, would you necessarily be told since it's just a plug being used to remotely-control another device such as a lamp, coffee maker, etc. Just a thought. Please let us know what you find out, thank you!

Bazcoigne · October 20

Thank you so much for your response- Nothing at all like that tbh - only thing I can think is maybe wireless alarm ? But I don’t think it’s that as different make. I’ve googled the ip where it comes up with manufacturer - it says Azurewave technology - only thing I know of is my laptop has that on. Now I didn’t have my laptop on for ages and this thing keeps running and doing it’s thing so can’t see it being that either!? What does an Lwip do exactly do you know? Could it be transferring info from my phone ? I really am going round in circles with it tbh.

please help me get to the bottom of it. Cheers

Bazcoigne · October 20

Shooter · October 20

All I can confirm is that the first letter in "lwip" is an "L", and that it refers to 'Lightweight IP'. Anything more is above my knowledge base. However, as a stretch, I wonder if it's the specific networking protocol used by some manufacturers in their intermediary technology designed for remotely controlling other devices. For example, both of the Wyze (brand) WiFi plugs I use to remotely control lamps via our home wifi network, are listed on both our network gateway and Fing app with "lwip" local hostnames. On the Fing device list, I simply change the name to what they really are. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable can chime in, or maybe knowing it's the local hostname of a wifi smart plug will help lead you to the source. Good luck!

Scooby · October 23

If you tap on the device, in the Fing app, does it show the MAC Address, under "Network details"? The first 6 characters, of a MAC Address, are "assigned" to the manufacturer. If you enter the 6 digits here, https://aruljohn.com/mac.pl, it "should" find the manufactuer. Finding that, may help you to identify the device.

GaoGao · October 23

I cannot find the icon showing in front of the device in your screen capture, so it is not helping. Scoooby suggestion above about the MAC address is the easiest way, but it may just show the name of an obscure chinese company. To get more details you can use Nmap/Zenmap from here https://nmap.org/download.html. An "Intense Scan" will probably give you all the details and more you are dreaming about.

Bazcoigne · October 23

Cheers sorry not seen other reply - its sc f5 I think - I’ve previously done this search amd it comes up Azurewave - now I know my laptop has this software or Whatever it is but I haven’t had my laptop on for ages and this thing is constantly changing status and running with ping etc - I got the MAC address off the router.

many info appreciated or if you need anything else - other than my bank details 🤣- let me know

cheers

GaoGao · October 23

Bazcoigne said:

Cheers sorry not seen other reply - its sc f5 I think - I’ve previously done this search amd it comes up Azurewave - now I know my laptop has this software or Whatever it is but I haven’t had my laptop on for ages and this thing is constantly changing status and running with ping etc - I got the MAC address off the router.
many info appreciated or if you need anything else - other than my bank details 🤣- let me know

cheers

SC:F5 is impossible (S is not an Hexadecimal number). Their is a Azurewave MAC address range at DC:F5:05. A MAC address not a software, it is hardware, related to the network adapter. Azureware makes wireless modules for IoT device and this is coherent with the lwip stack detected by Fing. It could be nearly anything from a camera to a connected coffee machine or to a smart home thermostat a but most probably not a laptop. Try Zenmap if it really bothers you.

Bazcoigne · October 23

Thanks I shall have a look now

The_Vorlon · November 5

Lightweight IP is a protocol intended to support embedded OS devices (such as IoT). Honeywell building management systems (such as thermostats) uses the protocol, as do many other vendors. Typically it used for embedded systems with limited memory and RAM. Details can be found here: https://www.nongnu.org/lwip/2_1_x/index.html

OverDrive · November 7

Hello. This is a device whis has accessed your system because it has your access password. You said you tried deleting it and it keeps coming back and it will keep coming back because it has the current pw. If it bothers you just change your pw and then you will find the device that stopped working and you can re-add it and name it in fing. Yes I know it is a pain to change your pw but this will work! Good luck!!

webwolf · November 7

I'd go with the process of elimination. Start turning things off, including the devices that already recognized and check for that IP going offline.

It might take some effort but it's really the only way to find something you can't otherwise identify.

I've had this before and after turning everything in the house off the device was still there.... Turned out I'd forgot about some baby room hub device that monitored temp and such... It never got actively used so I forgot it even existed until frantically racking my brain to discover some unknown device!

Good luck with the hunt!

The_Vorlon · November 7

webwolf said: I'd go with the process of elimination. Start turning things off, including the devices that already recognized and heck for that IP going offline

And this is why I keep a record of every device on my network and use static DHCP to assign addresses, along with defined pool for 'guest' devices. For example, I have 123 IoT devices (light bulbs, sensors, smart plugs, etc), 8 Alexa units, 16 IP cameras, plus printers, smart TV, smart appliances (fridge, washer, dryer, stove, etc), various roku boxes, etc. Not to mention the normal range of laptops, tablets, smartphones.

I use static DHCP for all devices, with switches, APs, printers and similar devices with manually assigned static IP. There is a very small range (5 IP) available for devices to connect and those addresses are limited by 802.1x to a very narrow range of access (enough to get them on the network, reachable to be configured). Guest users are on an entirely separate VLAN and get routed to the internet without ever seeing my primary network.

All the address assignments are easily seen in my Ubiquiti controller (plus a backup spreadsheet) so any device that pops up can quickly be identified. I do not rely on Fing for anything but monitoring - it's access control feature, is in my professional opinion, too easily spoofed. The 802.1x protocol was specifically meant to provide access control. Granted, 802.1x isn't something typically available on consumer grade routers, switches and wireless access points, so there is 'some' utility for Fing's access control.
That being said, if you are running a home network with close to 200 devices, you probably need way more than a consumer grade router (even a relatively high end one) - you need a proper network.

Daveyboi · November 13

Grab yourself a Fingbox and you can block the device and see what "breaks". I bought one for my home network a long time ago and use it all of the time to block things and keep an eye on new devices on the network.

webwolf · November 13

The_Vorlon said:

webwolf said: I'd go with the process of elimination. Start turning things off, including the devices that already recognized and heck for that IP going offline

And this is why I keep a record of every device on my network and use static DHCP to assign addresses, along with defined pool for 'guest' devices. For example, I have 123 IoT devices (light bulbs, sensors, smart plugs, etc), 8 Alexa units, 16 IP cameras, plus printers, smart TV, smart appliances (fridge, washer, dryer, stove, etc), various roku boxes, etc. Not to mention the normal range of laptops, tablets, smartphones.

I use static DHCP for all devices, with switches, APs, printers and similar devices with manually assigned static IP. There is a very small range (5 IP) available for devices to connect and those addresses are limited by 802.1x to a very narrow range of access (enough to get them on the network, reachable to be configured). Guest users are on an entirely separate VLAN and get routed to the internet without ever seeing my primary network.

All the address assignments are easily seen in my Ubiquiti controller (plus a backup spreadsheet) so any device that pops up can quickly be identified. I do not rely on Fing for anything but monitoring - it's access control feature, is in my professional opinion, too easily spoofed. The 802.1x protocol was specifically meant to provide access control. Granted, 802.1x isn't something typically available on consumer grade routers, switches and wireless access points, so there is 'some' utility for Fing's access control.
That being said, if you are running a home network with close to 200 devices, you probably need way more than a consumer grade router (even a relatively high end one) - you need a proper network.

Sounds like you're running a business not managing a residential home network

Randy61 · November 13

The_Vorlon said:

webwolf said: I'd go with the process of elimination. Start
That being said, if you are running a home network with close to 200 devices, you probably need way more than a consumer grade router (even a relatively high end one) - you need a proper network.

I tried Some Ubiquiti equipment a long time ago. Couldn't get it to work. They didn't provide support (nor did the seller), and there isn't anyone around my area who will set up a network in a home, they're all strictly business only. So where does that leave those of us who aren't tech pros? We're stuck with consumer grade. I can easily see myself eventually being in the neighborhood (device wise). But so far, my current router seems to be working fine.

webwolf · November 13

https://community.fing.com/discussion/comment/23056#Comment_23056

Consumer grade will keep up with demand well enough. Problem with enterprise grade or even SMB is exactly that you'll need support for it. Businesses pay a lot for that support hence consumer grade is less complex and easier to support for general tech guys over the phone!

IoTs produce a lot of complexity but there are other boxes available that provide IoT security as some sort of Central wireless IoT hub that is consumer grade. That way you're largely back to a small consumer network with just one internet facing IoT hub and mainly Ethernet devices and maybe a few cellphones, laptops and tablets on the main network.

Solution has to be maintained by whoever builds it so may as well keep it simple!

The_Vorlon · November 13

webwolf said:

The_Vorlon said:

webwolf said: I'd go with the process of elimination. Start turning things off, including the devices that already recognized and heck for that IP going offline

And this is why I keep a record of every device on my network and use static DHCP to assign addresses, along with defined pool for 'guest' devices. For example, I have 123 IoT devices (light bulbs, sensors, smart plugs, etc), 8 Alexa units, 16 IP cameras, plus printers, smart TV, smart appliances (fridge, washer, dryer, stove, etc), various roku boxes, etc. Not to mention the normal range of laptops, tablets, smartphones.

I use static DHCP for all devices, with switches, APs, printers and similar devices with manually assigned static IP. There is a very small range (5 IP) available for devices to connect and those addresses are limited by 802.1x to a very narrow range of access (enough to get them on the network, reachable to be configured). Guest users are on an entirely separate VLAN and get routed to the internet without ever seeing my primary network.

All the address assignments are easily seen in my Ubiquiti controller (plus a backup spreadsheet) so any device that pops up can quickly be identified. I do not rely on Fing for anything but monitoring - it's access control feature, is in my professional opinion, too easily spoofed. The 802.1x protocol was specifically meant to provide access control. Granted, 802.1x isn't something typically available on consumer grade routers, switches and wireless access points, so there is 'some' utility for Fing's access control.
That being said, if you are running a home network with close to 200 devices, you probably need way more than a consumer grade router (even a relatively high end one) - you need a proper network.

Sounds like you're running a business not managing a residential home network

110 smart IoT devices (lights, smart plugs, Roomba, appliances), 8 controllers (Alexa) 4 Smart TV, IP enabled washer, dryer, fridge, stove, 16 IP cameras, 2 NVR, a pair of NAS, media server, 4 computers, 3 laptops, 4 smart phones, 5 tablets. The network consists of a border router with two ISP in a fail-over scenario, security gateway, 5 switches, 8 access points - it's a home network - cutting edge yes. I am a network engineer and network security engineer by background. Is it a 'business' no, but if you are going to build a smart home, you need that level of technology.

The_Vorlon · November 13

webwolf said:

\n
\n
The_Vorlon<\/a> said:<\/div><\/blockquote>\n
\n
webwolf<\/a> said: I'd go with the process of elimination. Start
That being said, if you are running a home network with close to 200 devices, you probably need way more than a consumer grade router (even a relatively high end one) - you need a proper network.

<\/div><\/blockquote><\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\nI tried Some Ubiquiti equipment a long time ago. Couldn't get it to work. They didn't provide support (nor did the seller), and there isn't anyone around my area who will set up a network in a home, they're all strictly business only. So where does that leave those of us who aren't tech pros? We're stuck with consumer grade. I can easily see myself eventually being in the neighborhood (device wise). But so far, my current router seems to be working fine. ","bodyRaw":"

The_Vorlon<\/a> said:<\/div><\/blockquote>

webwolf<\/a> said:  I'd go with the process of elimination. Start 
That being said, if you are running a home network with close to 200 devices, you probably need way more than a consumer grade router (even a relatively high end one) - you need a proper network.

<\/div><\/blockquote><\/div><\/blockquote>I tried Some Ubiquiti equipment a long time ago. Couldn't get it to work. They didn't provide support (nor did the seller), and there isn't anyone around my area who will set up a network in a home, they're all strictly business only. So where does that leave those of us who aren't tech pros? We're stuck with consumer grade. I can easily see myself eventually being in the neighborhood (device wise). But so far, my current router seems to be working fine. ","format":"wysiwyg","dateInserted":"2020-11-13T16:00:03+00:00","insertUser":{"userID":21001,"name":"Randy61","url":"https:\/\/community.fing.com\/profile\/Randy61","photoUrl":"https:\/\/us.v-cdn.net\/6031733\/uploads\/defaultavatar\/pIJEONH7HC39K.jpg","dateLastActive":"2020-11-13T17:33:26+00:00","label":"✭"},"displayOptions":{"showUserLabel":false,"showCompactUserInfo":true,"showDiscussionLink":false,"showPostLink":false,"showCategoryLink":false,"renderFullContent":false,"expandByDefault":false},"url":"https:\/\/community.fing.com\/discussion\/comment\/23056#Comment_23056","embedType":"quote"}"> https://community.fing.com/discussion/comment/23056#Comment_23056

Consumer grade will keep up with demand well enough. Problem with enterprise grade or even SMB is exactly that you'll need support for it. Businesses pay a lot for that support hence consumer grade is less complex and easier to support for general tech guys over the phone!

IoTs produce a lot of complexity but there are other boxes available that provide IoT security as some sort of Central wireless IoT hub that is consumer grade. That way you're largely back to a small consumer network with just one internet facing IoT hub and mainly Ethernet devices and maybe a few cellphones, laptops and tablets on the main network.
Solution has to be maintained by whoever builds it so may as well keep it simple!

A consumer grade router will not 'keep up' with a true smart home network requirements - just review the specifications. Even a high-end wireless router can't keep up with more than 40 or 50 devices reliably. There isn't enough memory to support tracking stateful connections in and outbound, MAC address table, any required port translations and simply route traffic, keep up with wireless associations, DHCP and DNS.

webwolf · November 13

Not gonna quote again as it's getting long winded...

When you say "true smart home", you're basically a very small minority in the grand scheme. Not many people need that level of tech and the ones that do are generally professional or trade so have at it.

Typical consumers couldn't manage that level of technology on a good day, on a bad day it's hours of debugging and tech support that frankly would crash the consumer IoT industry.

I can't debate how consumer tech would handle 100s of devices but not many people have that many. I've probably got less than 20 and I'm pretty much done. I don't need the kettle and fridge and door locks etc to be smart. Lights, TV, Alexa and heating is plenty enough for me and I imagine a fair amount of others too.

I doubt many people where I come from could even fit that much in their house... Not without 10 cameras in every room and every socket and switch having WiFi in it!

The_Vorlon · November 13

Depends on the market segment - in higher-end homes you are seeing this level of automation on a fairly routine basis. There is a whole industry that has been spawned in terms of deploying and supporting smart home technology. I have occasionally done some consulting for smart homes for a few home builders. I will grant you that right now it's a niche, but expanding rapidly. As for support ... well different topic

Randy61 · November 14

The_Vorlon said:

webwolf said:

https://community.fing.com/discussion/comment/23056#Comment_23056

Consumer grade will keep up with demand well enough. Problem with enterprise grade or even SMB is exactly that you'll need support for it. Businesses pay a lot for that support hence consumer grade is less complex and easier to support for general tech guys over the phone!

IoTs produce a lot of complexity but there are other boxes available that provide IoT security as some sort of Central wireless IoT hub that is consumer grade. That way you're largely back to a small consumer network with just one internet facing IoT hub and mainly Ethernet devices and maybe a few cellphones, laptops and tablets on the main network.
Solution has to be maintained by whoever builds it so may as well keep it simple!

webwolf said:

https://community.fing.com/discussion/comment/23056#Comment_23056

Consumer grade will keep up with demand well enough. Problem with enterprise grade or even SMB is exactly that you'll need support for it. Businesses pay a lot for that support hence consumer grade is less complex and easier to support for general tech guys over the phone!

IoTs produce a lot of complexity but there are other boxes available that provide IoT security as some sort of Central wireless IoT hub that is consumer grade. That way you're largely back to a small consumer network with just one internet facing IoT hub and mainly Ethernet devices and maybe a few cellphones, laptops and tablets on the main network.
Solution has to be maintained by whoever builds it so may as well keep it simple!

A consumer grade router will not 'keep up' with a true smart home network requirements - just review the specifications. Even a high-end wireless router can't keep up with more than 40 or 50 devices reliably. There isn't enough memory to support tracking stateful connections in and outbound, MAC address table, any required port translations and simply route traffic, keep up with wireless associations, DHCP and DNS.

I've got 52 currently, and it running like a champ. Adding more very soon. But that still doesn't answer my concerns. If I'm not a pro, and a pro won't do residential, and the manufacturer won't provide support, what are we supposed to do? Just not do anything?

grassysneakers · November 14

I found devices in my network I thought were possible hacker devices. Come to find out it is not safe to assume that not all my devices come with just one network required connections. Such like Alarm Systems, Ring Door Bell, Smart Devices, even your own Wifi System you put in place behind a Modem/Gateway might require additional network addresses equipped/provided with their own Mac addresses.

I would safely say, it would not be a wise choice to disable/block them. Without throughly verifying that not all of your devices require multiple throughput connections.

Use the fing app to help isolate the connection "Google" manufacturers of your devices connected, and verify that your device "Mac Address" line up/or are supported and built for your device manufacturers.

This will help to identify and label (rename), them accordingly. So when they fade away you can feel comfortable knowing what they are.

I found some of my devices turned themselves on at different times. After I had configured my network from DHCP to a Static Configuration. So once I had everything configured, and when a device that required a multiple throughput turned on or was active. It assumed an automatic address (DHCP configuration) , and presented itself to me. I was almost tempted to disable/block it, then I Googled the device manufacturer, and the mac address relationship. Supports one manufacturer to another manufacturer.

My advice is to "Google", especially before you are going to configure your network in a "Static" configuration. You just might want to allocate some addresses, for a "Lightweight IP's", that disappears the reappears on you.

webwolf · November 16

Randy61 said:

I've got 52 currently, and it running like a champ. Adding more very soon. But that still doesn't answer my concerns. If I'm not a pro, and a pro won't do residential, and the manufacturer won't provide support, what are we supposed to do? Just not do anything?

The Synology RT2600AC (Which I use) is rated for up to 100 devices. If general consumers are pushing that limit, the chances are the consumer routers will expand that support, I'm fairly sure 100 devices wouldn't have been possible a few years back on a commercial router.

I'm at 66 with around 30 running right now, I've got labs constantly spun up and down on a virtual machine server and various devices spread around the house. I guess I could hit 100 devices but I'm not worried about it. I'm not sure I've ever had 50+ devices actually demanding bandwidth; I've never had issues with the router. Personally I'd just rock on and look for answers for problems when they arise... if you actually intend to use more devices than your router will support then you're gonna need a better router, or multiple routers... but really at some point in you're squarely in SMB territory but IMO if you can manage that many devices you can probably manage an SMB router without too much hassle!

20 years ago I couldn't even imagine having 2 computers in the house... my biggest issue was trying to learn about networking without having access to one! What a time to be alive

solace · November 25

The_Vorlon said:

Depends on the market segment - in higher-end homes you are seeing this level of automation on a fairly routine basis. There is a whole industry that has been spawned in terms of deploying and supporting smart home technology. I have occasionally done some consulting for smart homes for a few home builders. I will grant you that right now it's a niche, but expanding rapidly. As for support ... well different topic

Most Pro Smart Home installers try and steer clear of Wi-Fi devices and go with Zigbee/Z-Wave whenever possible.

The_Vorlon · 2:00AM

And you base this assertion on what evidence exactly? Are you a smart home installer? If so you would know that a smart installer uses the appropriate technology for the specific conditions. Zwave, zigbee and IP based devices all have their strengths and weakness and to be fully integrated zwave and zigbee connected devices require an IP enabled controller or bridge. Further some classes of IoT devices are only IP based.

Lwip on my router?

Answers